12 replies to this topic

[20886432]

I found a gadget with +129 Strength, +270 Charisma, +136 Finesse, +60 Damage, -469 Stamina, w/ a +8% missile damage refinement; better than my current gadget? (the refinement for my current gadget is +20% missile damage refinement)

 

[CaptC]

You have a points difference of +66, with an additional +60 damage. You would trade that for a 12% reduction in missile damage.

I generally count plus skills as +1 damage per swing. It's not exact, but it's a reasonable heuristic. So on the one side, you gain +126 damage with the new piece. But on the other side, you are giving up 12% of your missile damage. So let's solve for how big your missiles have to be, in order to break even on this equipment swap:

.12x=126 solves for x=1050.

That means if your missiles give you less than 1050 damage, sure, go ahead.

But this analysis is a lot of effort that almost certainly just proves the general rule we have tried to tell you over and over and over again: If a new piece gets an inferior refinement, just sell it and stop worrying about it.

[Tabithia]

I was going to suggest if it looked cooler on the paperdoll then yes.

[Kitekat]

kicher

[20886432]

I was going to suggest if it looked cooler on the paperdoll then yes.

I usually spend diamonds to change it to one I want anyways lol.

[20886432]

You have a points difference of +66, with an additional +60 damage. You would trade that for a 12% reduction in missile damage.

I generally count plus skills as +1 damage per swing. It's not exact, but it's a reasonable heuristic. So on the one side, you gain +126 damage with the new piece. But on the other side, you are giving up 12% of your missile damage. So let's solve for how big your missiles have to be, in order to break even on this equipment swap:

.12x=126 solves for x=1050.

That means if your missiles give you less than 1050 damage, sure, go ahead.

But this analysis is a lot of effort that almost certainly just proves the general rule we have tried to tell you over and over and over again: If a new piece gets an inferior refinement, just sell it and stop worrying about it.

 

My missiles do 2,219 damage so does that mean I should keep my current gadget? And if so is it worth it for me to keep trying to refine my new gadget (+126 skill points) w/ an +8% missle damage vs. my current one which is +20%?

[CaptC]

Keep the current gadget. Sell the new piece. It has a worthless refinement.

NEVER EVER refine a item that already has a refinement on it. You are just reducing the chance of getting a refinement worth keeping. (Where refinement worth keeping is defined as purple. Accept no substitutes.)

Edited by CaptC, 26 July 2019 - 05:40 AM.

[DeepTRA]

Keep the current gadget. Sell the new piece. It has a worthless refinement.

NEVER EVER refine a item that already has a refinement on it. You are just reducing the chance of getting a refinement worth keeping. (Where refinement worth keeping is defined as purple. Accept no substitutes.)

 

Well, I agree in general with CaptC but here is a small tip to get the epic refinement of your choice:

This "tip" is only for those that spent diamonds to get the epic refinement they want to a specific piece.

 

I have noticed that there are some refinements that are more difficult to get (5% on all skills and Metal spikes are very good examples).

So start to refine your piece until you get an epic. There is like an 80% chance that you will end up with the opposite refinement of your choice

In this case, my experience says that is better to keep this epic refinement and then continue to refine your piece until you get the one you want.

Why? because there is no way to get the same refinement you have so the next epic will probably be the one you want.

 

That was working well until some months ago, nowadays I don't spend so much so I don't know if anything changed.

[CaptC]

That is an interesting twist. I like it, Deeptra. But I would bet real money that you are still reducing your overall chances at getting the refinement you want.

Of course, it would take a lot of trials to pin that down, and I don't have that kind of patience anymore. LOL

[mountbara]

No need to run trials. The fact is, you can still get any enhancement except the one that you are keeping. So let's say on the belt you are keeping the epic air cushion hoping to get the epic lube. When you re-roll, you can still get air cushions, just not the epic one. So you are not really increasing your chances by doing this. You still only get 2 slots instead of 3 and you are only eliminating one item.

That is an interesting twist. I like it, Deeptra. But I would bet real money that you are still reducing your overall chances at getting the refinement you want.

Of course, it would take a lot of trials to pin that down, and I don't have that kind of patience anymore. LOL

[CaptC]

Of course, just to say: if Deeptra is saying, you are going to spend diamonds on a re-roll until you get what you want, then perhaps it does make sense to take the inferior purple refinement, then re-roll until you get the one you DO want.

I haven't actually done the math on that. In fact, I am not sure i can, because as Deeptra says, it is not certain that the odds of getting each purple is the same as the odds of getting ANY purple. And I simply don't know those numbers.

So it is quite possible that Deeptra is right. I don't have the evidence to conclusively dispute his theory. But I find it unlikely, because I know programmers. That would be excessively convoluted, most will just pick a flat random function and call it a day.

Edited by CaptC, 28 July 2019 - 03:23 AM.

[mountbara]

Fear not, the math is simple. You are only eliminating one item you could possibly get at the cost of losing 33% of your chances.  so 1 of dozens of items for a 33% loss. Easy math. And since one of the skill boosters can be epic also, you are still not eliminating the chance of getting an unwanted epic.

Of course, just to say: if Deeptra is saying, you are going to spend diamonds on a re-roll until you get what you want, then perhaps it does make sense to take the inferior purple refinement, then re-roll until you get the one you DO want.

I haven't actually done the math on that. In fact, I am not sure i can, because as Deeptra says, it is not certain that the odds of getting each purple is the same as the odds of getting ANY purple. And I simply don't know those numbers.

So it is quite possible that Deeptra is right. I don't have the evidence to conclusively dispute his theory. But I find it unlikely, because I know programmers. That would be excessively convoluted, most will just pick a flat random function and call it a day.

[DeepTRA]

First I'd like to make it clear that I refine like this only when I decide that ok I have a very good (until the next ) gold-framed item and I want to upgrade my equipment now.

I started to refine like this when I noticed that trying to get an epic with three spots and ignoring the ones that I didn't want, most of the times I was getting the same unwanted epic over and over.

 

As I said my experience (21.000+ refinements) shows that some refinements are more "difficult" to get. From the other hand, I don't know the algorithm so I just guessing.

We also speculating when we think flat like getting three options is better than two since we don't know how the algorithm works when you have two slots and not three. I mean it takes out one item randomly? (I don't think so), it recalculates everything based on two spots and one "epic" less, or something else?

 

Anyway, this is just my way to play with the odds (since at the end of the day it's just luck to get the epic you want) and I wanted to share it

Btw a big plus I didn't mention, you can stop refining whenever you like and start over later when you will feel luckier