25 replies to this topic

[Honcho]

The Big Bang Awards are not at all inclusive of all types of players.  Lesbian and Gay players are forced to submit heterosexual films in order to even have a chance of making the top ten.  There should be categories.  At least three, and possibly more.  I can easily see categories of Hetero, LGBT, and Fetish, or possibly break LGBT out to at least lesbian and gay.  The real life AVN awards have a multitude of categories!  How about at least giving us three!

[TaraBing]

Hi Honcho...

 

The Big Bang Awards are not at all inclusive of all types of players.  Lesbian and Gay players are forced to submit heterosexual films in order to even have a chance of making the top ten.  There should be categories.  At least three, and possibly more.  I can easily see categories of Hetero, LGBT, and Fetish, or possibly break LGBT out to at least lesbian and gay.  The real life AVN awards have a multitude of categories!  How about at least giving us three!

 

It sounds like a cool enough idea... so are you suggesting that there be multiple BBA categories to submit movie covers to?

 

Would it work the way you envision?  What stops a film maker from submitting a hetero cover to a non-hetero category?

 

When you say force, how do you mean?  The movie covers themselves do not limit or enforce any one gender, role, orientation, or sexual preference over another; so in that regard they are open to creation and interpretation.

 

Do you mean forced into one category - tell me more about how you might see this working?

 

 

Thanks for your contribution.

 

 

-TB 

 

.

[Honcho]

Yes, multiple categories to submit covers to.

 

I don't see a way to prevent players from submitting a hetero cover to the gay BBA or vice versa, but I hope that the honor system would suffice...  if not.. the same mechanism that allows a player to report an inappropriate title would work.

 

By "forced" I mean that the majority of players are straight, so the majority of votes go to straight films.  I'd be willing to bet that a gay themed film has never won.  Lesbian films do appeal to straight men, so they make it to the top, but gay films specifically are at a major disadvantage.

 

The mechanics of voting seem like the most significant challenge.  How can the current voting mechanism be reworked to support categories?

 

I suggest that the same or similar mechanism used in conventions that awards the top player and winning show player be used to award the top Straight film and the top Gay film

 

Basically....  a player submits their cover as Straight or Gay (or any number of categories), then the film from each category with the most votes gets an award.

[TaraBing]

Yes, multiple categories to submit covers to.

 

I don't see a way to prevent players from submitting a hetero cover to the gay BBA or vice versa, but I hope that the honor system would suffice...  if not.. the same mechanism that allows a player to report an inappropriate title would work.

 

By "forced" I mean that the majority of players are straight, so the majority of votes go to straight films.  I'd be willing to bet that a gay themed film has never won.  Lesbian films do appeal to straight men, so they make it to the top, but gay films specifically are at a major disadvantage.

 

The mechanics of voting seem like the most significant challenge.  How can the current voting mechanism be reworked to support categories?

 

I suggest that the same or similar mechanism used in conventions that awards the top player and winning show player be used to award the top Straight film and the top Gay film

 

Basically....  a player submits their cover as Straight or Gay (or any number of categories), then the film from each category with the most votes gets an award.

 

 

Perfectly clear.  So, it's not the game-covers that force the issue as much as it is the mass-identity of the players voting at-large with their majority hetero preference/patterns all aggregated in to one large single community/category.

 

And then in addition to having separate covers to submit into different categories, the devs would need to come up with a way to have players vote on these newer smaller categories?  

 

 

A couple of thoughts:

 

1. I can see multiple elements of players attempting to "game the system" to earn these extra rewards with no regard for the value of the separate categories.  And I'm not sure how much the "flagging" or reporting of inappropriateness will play in to the correcting of of the willful submitting of wrongful categories,especially knowing fewer votes have more weight in attempting to "game" for rewards in these new categories.  Maybe it all corrects itself over time with proper self-policing,
   
    
2. The irony of this suggestion is that in order to create a sense of community and inclusiveness, this requires having separate exclusive blocks of selection and voting groups.

 

But I get where you are going with this...   

 

I can ask the devs to consider the suggestion...  and I thank you for the contribution.

 

 

-TB 

 

.

[Sadie2]

I can see how this could be game-breaking.  As you mentioned the majority of players are straight, so with an honor system, this wouldn't work.  There would still be a lot of players who would try to manipulate the system so they could benefit the most with rewards.  A completely straight person, who may have a lot of money and access to diamonds on a regular basis could see, as a hypothetical example; that films featuring lesbian or hetero-covers and titles are more popular and therefore, more people submit those for the BBAs.  Now with a Gay Male/Female BBE and a Hetero BBE, that savvy wealthy diamond-owner might realize that since there aren't as many films submitted, for example, to the Gay Male category as there are the others.  Now this person of course, has a lot of diamonds that he/she has saved up over a long period of time.  This person may then choose to make a lot of films in one week and max out the number of films he/she has made and submit them all to the Gay Male category.  He/she may even have a male avatar as their character so that the category matches their cover.

 

Now with not many people submitting to the Gay Male Category, and even less people submitting the max number of films for a week, that person's chances have gone way up to win and collect the BBA Award for that category.  So we end up strengthening those pay-to-play people even more.

 

The honor system overall just won't work.  Not online anyway.  It could end up being too game-breaking.  Now since the game caters to any gender or sexual preference, the only way something like this could possibly work, would be if a mechanic was in place to identify one's sexual orientation at the character creation.  But that would be opening up a massive can of worms that I don't think the devs would ever be interested in exploring, much less the players who would feel alienated or not ready yet to express openly their preference even in a game.  That would be getting too personal and I don't believe anyone would want to face the potential backlash that could stem from that.

 

Overall, BBE is just a game and it really is what it is.  I think a lot of areas need improving, but the formula I think works and makes the game fun for everyone who plays.  While your idea is great and has potential, I just think that it has as much potential to be game-breaking and unfair for the free-players who maybe can't afford to buy so many diamonds as the others.  It just has the potential to be exploited I think for people who care more about looking the best and being the best rather than enjoying the game for what it is and striving like everyone else does.

 

I dunno though.  I'm not a developer or moderator or anything, just a poor girl who likes playing the game.

[Honcho]

I can see how this could be game-breaking.  As you mentioned the majority of players are straight, so with an honor system, this wouldn't work.  There would still be a lot of players who would try to manipulate the system so they could benefit the most with rewards.  A completely straight person, who may have a lot of money and access to diamonds on a regular basis could see, as a hypothetical example; that films featuring lesbian or hetero-covers and titles are more popular and therefore, more people submit those for the BBAs.  Now with a Gay Male/Female BBE and a Hetero BBE, that savvy wealthy diamond-owner might realize that since there aren't as many films submitted, for example, to the Gay Male category as there are the others.  Now this person of course, has a lot of diamonds that he/she has saved up over a long period of time.  This person may then choose to make a lot of films in one week and max out the number of films he/she has made and submit them all to the Gay Male category.  He/she may even have a male avatar as their character so that the category matches their cover.

 

Now with not many people submitting to the Gay Male Category, and even less people submitting the max number of films for a week, that person's chances have gone way up to win and collect the BBA Award for that category.  So we end up strengthening those pay-to-play people even more.

 

The honor system overall just won't work.  Not online anyway.  It could end up being too game-breaking.  Now since the game caters to any gender or sexual preference, the only way something like this could possibly work, would be if a mechanic was in place to identify one's sexual orientation at the character creation.  But that would be opening up a massive can of worms that I don't think the devs would ever be interested in exploring, much less the players who would feel alienated or not ready yet to express openly their preference even in a game.  That would be getting too personal and I don't believe anyone would want to face the potential backlash that could stem from that.

 

Overall, BBE is just a game and it really is what it is.  I think a lot of areas need improving, but the formula I think works and makes the game fun for everyone who plays.  While your idea is great and has potential, I just think that it has as much potential to be game-breaking and unfair for the free-players who maybe can't afford to buy so many diamonds as the others.  It just has the potential to be exploited I think for people who care more about looking the best and being the best rather than enjoying the game for what it is and striving like everyone else does.

 

I dunno though.  I'm not a developer or moderator or anything, just a poor girl who likes playing the game.

 

I think you misunderstand the mechanics of the idea.  Each player can only submit one film a week, so there's no more gaming the system than there is today.  No need for free players to panic!

[ChrisVigilante]

I would love this.  I think it would help to have categories for Big Bang awards. I don't see male/male covers doing nearly as well week to week as others. It's something that would make the game more enjoyable for me. I really don't even like getting ballots and having to vote because there are covers I'd rather not vote for and it cost diamonds to change the covers out for 2 different ones. Usually just to have two more I'm not interested in supporting. If we could pick categories we want to vote in too I'd really enjoy this kind of feature.

[CaptC]

So, just saying, I would need some clarity about certain things before I feel like a coherent suggestion can be submitted.

 

1) How is voting handled? Can you only vote in particular categories? Or do you get selections from all categories, and everyone gets to vote in all categories?

 

2) Honcho, how is the category of a film decided? If players can pick the film category, and all players vote in all categories, then one of Tara's points is pretty damning - I can make a hetero cover that is going to do well appealing to the primarily hetero audience, submit it to the gay category, and gain an unfair advantage.  If the gay category is full of hetero covers, nobody is going to be happy. So there needs to be some fair way to distinguish gay, lesbian and straight films. Being a "privileged hetero", I do not feel entirely comfortable making suggestions here on how to make that determination, for a community I do not belong to.

 

Note that one of Tara's objections is also quite right. Why stop at gay and lesbian?  There is a bit of a slippery slope and it can't all be done. TS, grandma, bbw, hair color, ebony, asian... the categorization of porn is endless, and the scope of that is likely beyond what can be done, even if the desire was there. On the other hand, gay and lesbian categories have been specifically asked for, but not the others to my knowledge, so perhaps a distinction can be made simply on the probable numbers of people interested.

 

3) Does each category have a separate, equivalent prize structure?

 

If so, one of Sadie's objection boils down to this:  There will be fewer competitors in the gay and lesbian categories, for equal prizes, and some players will deliberately choose to compete in the categories with less opposition. Even if they are "fake" covers.

 

My feeling is: So what? Let players compete where they want.  It's not like straight directors can't make gay films, or for straight actors to moonlight. It will sort itself out. Even if someone is straight, they still have to make a hot gay cover to win the prize, which seems a win/win at the end of the day. But again, I cannot speak for the gay or lesbian community, so I don't know if it is an issue that you are likely going to see some "fake gays". 

Edited by CaptC, 14 July 2017 - 12:51 AM.

[Honcho]

It's not that different from what's in place today.  You're overthinking it!

 

Each player can submit ONE film each week.  What would be new is that they have to choose a category.

 

Whichever category they choose to participate in, that's the only category that they get to vote in.

[CaptC]

Not the first time I have been accused of over-thinking. Not even the first time this week. *shrug* I don't care if it is overthinking or not, I still wanted clarity about your proposal.

 

Which you provided. Thank you.  

 

You are suggesting:

 

- Players pick a category when they designate which film gets submitted.

- There are three categories, "hetero", "gay", "lesbian"

- Players will only be able to vote for films labelled the same as the movie they submitted.

- Most popular film in all three categories gets an equal prize. 

 

Much of my potential issues are dealt with by such a proposal. I don't care if someone labels a film as gay, when it's not - since presumably the hetero majority will submit hetero films, and thus won't be able to disproportionately influence the vote in the other categories. If a straight person wants to make a gay film, that's their decision - but the film then gets judged as a gay film, by a self-identified gay audience, and is not likely to be inappropriately rewarded via other criteria.

 

Whether or not it makes business sense to triple the prize pool for the BBA, and to invest the necessary development time is another issue entirely, of course. But that is above my pay grade.  

[Honcho]

I think the biggest "slippery slope" is getting any of this wrapped with "political" views.

 

I just want the game to be more inclusive.  They (Playata) have shown that being such is a goal they value, and I would say that being the case, they haven't done enough, and this change would be a very good step in that direction.

 

I'm sure that the post by ChrisVigilante  represents a decent number of players that would be happier... and happier players means more money for Playata.  Makes business sense to just do it.

 

I'm certain that I can counter any reservation brought forth, and look forward to the opportunity to do so  : - )

[Terrorsin]

I'd like to play the game my way rather than "win" the game by pleasing others.  So for me, I want more free choices (titles, cover photo, etc.) when making films such that I can at least do covers I enjoy.  Maybe give us 3 random titles (each one from different categories) and costars/poses to choose from.  I'm not going to spend money (even free game money) to make changes knowing it's not getting the film anywhere.

[Honcho]

I'd like to play the game my way rather than "win" the game by pleasing others.  So for me, I want more free choices (titles, cover photo, etc.) when making films such that I can at least do covers I enjoy.  Maybe give us 3 random titles (each one from different categories) and costars/poses to choose from.  I'm not going to spend money (even free game money) to make changes knowing it's not getting the film anywhere.

 

Understood.... but that's a lot of "free" to ask for.  What if the "select a film" page gave you the option to choose a category, then all the subsequent choices you list would be relevant to the category?

[CaptC]

So, everything about the player character is already determined by the player. Sets and borders and all that other movie cover making stuff is not film category specific, I think.

So I think chrisvigilante and terrorsin's issue basically boils down to keeping the co-stars of the appropriate gender, without paying for a suitable selection. That means two things:  You have to pick the category for a film when you start making it.  And the costars need to be appropriate to the category.  I think this updated proposal captures that.

 

- There are three categories of films, "hetero", "gay", "lesbian"

- Players pick a category when the film hits two stars. The default will be sticky, and be the same as the last movie made by the player. (Thus, the initial default for the first movie made by a player will be hetero as a simple nod to the bigger population, but once a player makes a gay film, they will always make gay films until they specifically change it.)

- The default costar in a movie, the one with zero cost, will be determined by the category of film being made. In the lesbian category, the default choice of costar will be female or none.  In the gay category, the default choice of costar will be male or none. In the hetero category, the default costar will remain random.  

- Players will only be able to vote for films labelled the same as the movie they submitted.

- Most popular film in all three categories gets an equal prize.

Edited by CaptC, 14 July 2017 - 04:52 PM.

[TaraBing]

Wow, this suggestion is taking shape.  I could see it getting in to the game if the devs choose to go in this direction...

 

 

-TB 

 

.

[Valric]

This is a great idea and I definitely support this.

 

As a gaymer I always felt that I have absolutely no chances to ever win the BBE Awards because of the fact that I'm creating gay themed covers only. And we all know that the majority of players only votes for boobs.

 

I remember there has been a change made to the BBE Awards in the past that was kinda similiar.

Since players of male stars felt they have worse chances than players of female stars ( you know...boobs again), the developers changed the displayed choice of the 2 random covers to be always "male star vs. male star" or "female star vs. female star". That was a fair change and I think the same goes for lesbian and gay themed movie cover categories.

 

BBE always tries to act LGBT friendly but unfortunately only on a very half-hearted way. Yes we can mark our stars to be gay on the avatar photo but that doesn't stop the game from treating us like we are hetero by default. My star is gay but yet he has to engage in so many sexual adventures with only female NPCs during the missions. There are no male Dating-NPCs at all (the striptease pictures unlock tasks in each area). And I don't want to start with all the teasing like the big boobed slot machine girl which is absolutely not teasing at all for a gaymer. Things like these clearly show that BBE acually is not LGBT friendly at all...it is intended for male hetero players only and the LGBT community just gets some stereotyped rainbow flags here and there.

 

Introducing these new categories to the BBE Awards would be a huge step towards a truly LGBT friendly game and I wholeheartedly agree to the updated proposal by CaptC.

[TaraBing]

Nice points...

 

This is a great idea and I definitely support this.

 

As a gaymer I always felt that I have absolutely no chances to ever win the BBE Awards because of the fact that I'm creating gay themed covers only. And we all know that the majority of players only votes for boobs.

 

I remember there has been a change made to the BBE Awards in the past that was kinda similiar.

Since players of male stars felt they have worse chances than players of female stars ( you know...boobs again), the developers changed the displayed choice of the 2 random covers to be always "male star vs. male star" or "female star vs. female star". That was a fair change and I think the same goes for lesbian and gay themed movie cover categories.

 

BBE always tries to act LGBT friendly but unfortunately only on a very half-hearted way. Yes we can mark our stars to be gay on the avatar photo but that doesn't stop the game from treating us like we are hetero by default. My star is gay but yet he has to engage in so many sexual adventures with only female NPCs during the missions. There are no male Dating-NPCs at all (the striptease pictures unlock tasks in each area). And I don't want to start with all the teasing like the big boobed slot machine girl which is absolutely not teasing at all for a gaymer. Things like these clearly show that BBE acually is not LGBT friendly at all...it is intended for male hetero players only and the LGBT community just gets some stereotyped rainbow flags here and there.

 

Introducing these new categories to the BBE Awards would be a huge step towards a truly LGBT friendly game and I wholeheartedly agree to the updated proposal by CaptC.

 

... and from a "gaymer".  I never heard that term.  I'll have to put that in my lexicon.   

 

Thank you for your contribution...

 

 

-TB 

 

.

 

 

[CaptC]

This is a great idea and I definitely support this.

 

As a gaymer I always felt that I have absolutely no chances to ever win the BBE Awards because of the fact that I'm creating gay themed covers only. And we all know that the majority of players only votes for boobs.

 

Just to say... one time a studio mate of mine canvassed the top 10 bba results. Each and every one of them had the border with the nude splayed female legs.  So there are other body parts that get voted for, too... LOL 

 

But I completely agree that guys get the short stick, here.  I post joke covers from time to time hanging it all out, so to speak. I think my highest finish with one of those was about #800.

[TaraBing]

Just to say... one time a studio mate of mine canvassed the top 10 bba results. Each and every one of them had the border with the nude splayed female legs.  So there are other body parts that get voted for, too... LOL 

 

But I completely agree that guys get the short stick, here.  I post joke covers from time to time hanging it all out, so to speak. I think my highest finish with one of those was about #800.

 

Wait!  There's a border with splayed legs?  Must be a Nutaku only thing... 

 

 

-TB 

 

.

[CaptC]

Sorry, forgot it was Nutaku specific. And yes, there is a nude woman laying face-up on her back in one of the borders.  She is visible from the belly button down, and she is very popular in the bba voting.